Deborarh Deardorff is the Global Sales Enablement Manager at Cornerstone OnDemand.  In this session with The Collaborator, Deborah  focused on how deploying sales processes and technologies can best be handled.

Beyond the deployment topic, the piece of advice that I thought was most important:

Be curious and learn from other industries and professions. She shared wonderful lessons learned from marketing and project management teams.

Spot on!

Audio Transcript

Deborah Deardorff
The beautiful day here in pa I hear we might be getting snow later this week. But yeah, well, we shall see.

The Collaborator
I grew up in Vermont, and I’m still Why then I’ve reached the point where I no longer want to deal with snow, which is shameful on me, but it’s the truth. Tell me a little bit about yourself. You know where you work and all those good things.

Deborah Deardorff
Yeah, cool. Cool. Yeah. So I’m super excited to be here. Thanks for having me. It feels like forever since our meetup days when we would do those monthly calls. They were really fun. But yeah, so I’m currently at Cornerstone ondemand. I’ve been here about seven years absolutely love it. I work in sales enablement, predominantly focused on North American commercial sales and client sales. And that’s my primary focus. But I spend a lot of time working on global enablement projects as well around systems. So the adoption and optimization of say our account and opportunity planning system, as well as most recently I’m in deep neck deep in the upgrade to our quoting and pricing tool. So our CLM crcp q CLM. system. So that’s quite an interesting change in q4. I will tell you so yeah. So, so that includes the, you know, overseeing ua, T, change management, communications enablement, and right now post, go live support. But from a non work perspective, I, like I said, live in beautiful Pennsylvania. We had some crazy storms last night, and I lost power at 6pm. And I was like, okay, that’s cool. called med Ed. They said it’d be back on at night. I’m sorry, nine. Yeah, I woke up at 1130. And it was dark, no electricity. And I’m like, honey, honey, can you give me a Can you give me a generator tomorrow? And then I’d like lay there. And I’m like, hey, do you think I could take a shower tomorrow? So I was like, on vision day, like, where do I go baseball cap. So I think it’s kind of funny. So to me, the only reason I tell that story is because, you know, I feel like that’s what we do in enablement, right? No matter how much we plan, right, something always happens. So you have to really rely on those. I call them my improv skills. So I recently spent about a year Yes, but about a year in improv, and I didn’t, I jumped ahead, I jumped in headfirst. I was like, Don’t think just do it, if you think you’re going to be afraid, and you’re not going to do it. So I just was like, I signed up and I was like, okay, God, I gotta do it now. Um, and they, they proved hugely, hugely valuable, not only in life, but in work, because it’s, it’s this idea that, you know, you just got to say yes, and right. And you just, like, keep building on it and support, support, what’s happening, the change that’s happening in front of you, and you can’t control it, because you have no idea what that person’s about to say. But at the same time, what I loved about it is I was actually supporting that person, right? It’s how do I make them look better? How do we work together, they make each other look good and have fun at the same time. So that was a really long story, just to tell you that, you know, I live in pa and it was sort of a crazy night last night. Um, and I’ll add one more thing before I give you a chance to ask. But I feel like I’m like most enablement people were my my path here was really circuitous, right. I was in banking, I was in manufacturing, I was in quality control. I was a retail I was an IT I was an l&d. And then I went into solutions consulting at Cornerstone, northeast enterprise, and then ultimately ended up in enablement. And I feel like I have found my happy home I feel like it brings all of those skills and capabilities and experience together to really, you know, deliver a fabulous product. So yeah, a little bit that’s a little bit about me,

The Collaborator
I love so much of that not be losing power. But I I love that your journeys been so circuitous, as you said so well, because so many people in enablement, follow that same sort of all over the place path. And I think that enriches their, their insights when they take a role in enablement as well. So I think that’s awesome. And I love the improv. I love the improv because that does feel like something that’s genuinely helpful for what we do every day. Tell us a little bit of what is your enablement team look like? You know, how big is it? How many people do you support? How do you report up into the organization?

Deborah Deardorff
So we report up into sales operations, which reports directly up into the chief sales officer. As far as our sales enablement team. I, we’re in a bit of flux right now and I’ll go into that in a little bit. But we currently have 10 people supporting around 450 reps use all round numbers because if you if you are familiar with the talent management industry, which Cornerstone sells talent management software. We recently acquired in March Sava. So we’re in the throes, right of combining those two companies into one new company and who we’re going to be as a go forward company. So that’s why I say it’s kind of a little in flux right now. And we do have a couple openings on the team. So that’s really, really exciting. But um, I’d say that we are an eclectic team that complements each other. We have some people who have sold for years at Cornerstone, I think that’s really important perspective and skill to inexperienced have on the team. But we also have this nice balance, too. We had an instructional instructional designer, she recently laughs So we need to fill that but you know, but you need that person who really understands how to create content, how to use Photoshop, how to do voiceovers, how to do illustrator, storyline, right, and she knows adult learning. We also have people with me l&d experience, you have people that came from it, people with project management skills and change management skills. So I think it’s just so important that you build this really, that you understand everything that enablement needs to do and you make really conscience conscious efforts to to get a variety of people that all work together and complement each other.

The Collaborator
I agree, there’s so many things that enablement does, or is capable of doing to help the business move forward. So having those people with those backgrounds in those skills, I couldn’t agree more. Deborah, they’re so important to have that. Yeah. Let me ask you this. I know we wanted to talk specifically about deploying new processes and technologies. And and some of the thoughts you have on that front. Is the CPU project a good one to talk through? Or should we take a different one to talk about how you typically do those sorts of things?

Deborah Deardorff
I think this would be q one’s a good one. Because it was such a global project, so impactful to the business. We worked on it for a good year. So um, it was a it was it was a massive beast. That is a massive beast, that is so important to the company. So starts with right the recognition of the need. And when we started working on it, the acquisition of Sapa had not happened. But it happened pretty early in the process of it. So you know, I think that, you know, the needs that we fulfill just from a high level where we’re gonna have better data around product level profitability, and pricing and things like that. But you know, that’s a company need from a sales need. It really eases how renewals happen. So what we added on was the asset based ordering so that when a rep goes into renewal product, there’s already a history right of what’s been bought at what price current price with like that, that annual increase already included. So the idea there is to make their lives easier and help them focus on what they’re best at, which is selling and less time on administrative order creation. It also is going to improve our our renewal forecasting and our incremental forecasting, which is so important to a public company, right, that’s as accurate as I possibly can be. But, you know, ultimately, this, this project was laying the foundation for the integration of three different CRMs. So you, we’ve got the cornerstone CRM, we’ve got the Sapa CRM, and Sapa has also acquired lumos, who had a CRM, so this project was laying that foundation so that in 2021, we could begin to, you know, integrate systems and processes as a go forward company. So really important. That’s

The Collaborator
when the project started out, what role did you have, you know, that enablement have in the initial planning conversations about how the approach or how you’re going to approach it overall?

Deborah Deardorff
So I’m really lucky that they bring they bring me in really early, um, and so so that’s helpful. And so that we can influence where it’s going and provide our feedback. So I think, you know, one of the, there’s two parts of every project that I work on like this, there’s, there’s the change management part, and then the sub, the project management part, which I really can’t say I own the whole project, I own like a sub project of the business operation school project, right. Like so. Yeah. So but from a change management perspective, I kind of, I think of myself sometimes as a conductor, right? So it’s like, I have to identify who does this affect? And who do I need to bring in? When do I need to bring them in? How loud do they be need to be or do I need to quiet them down? Right? Or when do they work together? When should they be alone so I I just feel like a lot of times, it’s it’s that, but it’s that overall arching view and conducting the process. But at the same time to, you know, if I think about my role in the change management as a champion, right, I’m here to get you excited about about it, and at the same time to call you calm you down when you feel like there’s risk coming. And to reframe it for you, so that you see it differently. I often joke that I’m a translator, and I felt this way. You know, throughout my career, especially when I worked in it trading, I felt like I spoke the language of the buyers and retail, and translated it to it, you know, and help them understand each other. So I feel like sometimes too, I’m doing that translation work here at Cornerstone like this is what’s important to sales. And this is what they mean, and you know, translating that over to business operations and vice versa. Like it’s

The Collaborator
critical. What we do, is the person in the middle, that team in the middle that translates between the different groups, I think that’s an important function we should play.

Deborah Deardorff
Yeah, yeah, hundred percent. And then, you know, I think, you know, I’m an advocate for sales. So if I see things that are maybe going to be blockers or slow things down for them, I’m advocating for them, right. But at the same time that I’m advocating for them, I’m also looking for and building advocates within sales, to help me with the communication and some of the things have been successful. In the past, I’ve had reps like record videos that were part of the pre launch email communications, or you can use their voices in the training. So it’s not me saying this is great. It’s your peer. And, and I, you know, I also a lot of times, say, Hey, your peers, and I’ll list their names. And I’ll say these peers were part of the UAE, they were part of studying the requirements and how the system looks. So we want you to understand, we heard you, and your needs were looked at. So. Yeah, so, um, that was a lot about, you know, change management, it’s, it’s identifying who’s going to be involved, it’s crafting the message, it’s getting people on board. And I think when I think about getting people on board, I feel like I should start with sales enablement first, right, because we have such great relationships with our sales leaders. So if I can get enablement on board first, and they understand the change and can articulate in our behind it, then they can help me bring the sales leaders along. And the sales leader has helped me bring the sales managers along, and then the senior sales manager has helped me bring the reps along. So that part takes a lot of time. But it’s, it’s so worth the effort. It’s part of my whole let’s go slow to go fast. Because if I go slow in the beginning, I can go so much faster. At the end, have you experienced that? And you’re?

The Collaborator
No, I agree with you, if you get everybody on board up front, you’re gonna have fewer obstacles down the line. Whereas you try to go really quickly at all these annoying little bumps in the road, slow you down along that journey, and it’s a pathetically painful path to go down. So I agree with you completely. Deborah, if you can get that by an enlightenment upfront. It’s so important. With a project like the CPP project, though, were you? Were you responsible for sort of building that alignment across the leadership team? You know, what was the role of enablement there? Was it just getting enablement in line? Or was or aligned and understanding what was going on? Or did you have the job of going broader? Well, I

Deborah Deardorff
mean, I work with business, the business ops teams, and you know, I think a lot of our skill right is asking really good questions and working with a subject matter expert. So I would say I did it. Like in partnership, I didn’t have the answers, I would go to them and be like, why are we doing this? Why are we doing this in q4? What’s like, what’s in it for them? I need more, I need more what’s in it for that man, just like keep asking. But I think we’re really good at crafting the communications in a way that speaks to sales. So and I’ll give you an I’ll give you an example. Watch, I’ll probably give you two. One, I had to do a presentation on the global field call. This is 480 sales reps or whatever it is a ton of people on this 90 minute call. And I have to talk about asset based ordering coming during q4. I’m like, What am I going to do? Like I don’t want to just stand up and be like, Wow,

The Collaborator
that’s a subject that will have everybody at the edge of their seats. Go tell me

Deborah Deardorff
right. Right, right. That’s why they’re cooking their coffee. You know, they’re like making their coffee and cooking their Lodge.

The Collaborator
playing Candy Crush, you know, whatever.

Deborah Deardorff
Yeah, totally. So I was like, What can I do to be different? And so what I decided to do was tell a story and what I did I personified the system into a person named Pat. Yeah. And so, Pat, so I took them on a journey through Pat’s evolution from when we first implemented the system back in 2015, through all of the ways that we’ve improved it over time. But it was I had this like t shirt that pat had on and then like his t shirt would change his hair to like, when he first started, His hair was all messy and gross and everywhere. And then like, as he evolved, he got a little more mature, and his hair got better. And he got to talk. But the whole time, people didn’t understand what I was talking about it for so so they were half listening, because they were confused. Which, which was perfect. I mean, I was completely intentional. I was completely Yeah, purposeful and confusing them because I wanted them to listen. But the the fun part about it was I also applied some of the skills that we had taught the sales teams around remote selling and that constant need for change and entertainment and humor, during virtual sales calls. And so yeah, so that was fun to you know, have that that whole story told, but the funny thing is, I had a birthday, like, I don’t know, a week later, I got so many Facebook posts that talked about Pat. And so I feel like you another fun thing about Pat is it created empathy, right? Because if you personify Pat, you can have some connection and empathy towards the system. So I don’t know, it was just a fun way. I you know, people loved it. And we continued that through our communications, like when he went when he went live. The posts go live communications, Pat had muscles. I was like, you know, Pat’s been loaded up with your muscles, and he’s ready to go. And, you know, that’s

The Collaborator
awesome, though. I love that though. I love that though. Have you seen that the impact how, how well, it’s been adopted, how it’s being used.

Deborah Deardorff
I mean, it created some fun and interest. And I think it put people in a different headset, right. And I think you retain information better when you use humor, and you tell a story. I just stood up there and said, okay, over the weekend over Halloween, the system is going to be down, blah, blah, blah. But you know, people wouldn’t listen. But I think it encouraged them to look at the emails more. And they had more awareness because they actually listened. So I do feel like that was an important investment of time. And I’ll tell you to like, it took me 20 hours to create that five minute presentation. So it’s no joke when you you plan those things? You got to put some time in there. Yeah. Right. We’re supposed to be storytellers, charisma, make it fun, entertaining, while delivering information.

The Collaborator
I love that. What kind of training? Did you did you do beyond that? Ever? Was it just that? Was that it? Just that a call? Or did you build a lot of stuff? Around chat? And all of that? Yeah,

Deborah Deardorff
yeah. So, um, there was a lot of training. We had, there were 10 courses for 120 minutes, but I did not assign at all. And here’s why. First of all, we’ve had we had a lot of training fatigue this year with change, right? With the combination of the company’s new products, new ways to sell remotely. It just people are exhausted from training, they’re exhausted from life. They’re exhausted from kids on zoom, they’re tired. So I what I decided to do is I, we created, like I said, the hundred and 20 minutes, 10 courses, and we made those available on demand in a playlist and our learning management system. From those 10 courses, I distilled out just 19 minutes of here’s what’s new, here’s what’s changed, here’s what’s new. And then within it, I’d say if you are like for example, how you do an early renewal change, I would post something up in that 90 minutes. It says hey, you know, FYI, there’s extra, you know, step by step training available for you in the playlist. Only thing that was required was that 19 minutes so it was I got a lot of feedback to that. On that course that it was they appreciated the gravity. They said it was fun. People said they laughed out loud while while they were taking it. And so I think you know, to me that feel feels like a win. I feel like I respected their time. I entertain them but they got what they needed. So it was fun. I mean, not that I you know, don’t get me wrong. There’s tons of ways where I reflect and think, you know, this is what I could do better next time and that’s definitely part of the process is that reflection and and, and sharing with the whole team. Here’s what went well, here’s what you should do. Again, here’s what we should do differently kind of thing. So I don’t want you to think was all perfect because nothing’s ever perfect.

The Collaborator
Nothing is ever perfect. I was going to ask you the Denver So you mean the 19 minute short version of the hundred and 20 minutes have you can Considered, I have no clue what makes sense. But have you considered that maybe you don’t need the hundred and 20 minutes next time?

Deborah Deardorff
So it’s a great question. But yes, I do need it. Here’s why. Here’s why. So we created that hundred and 20 minutes is for will be used for onboarding of new hires. Right. And the other part of it is some of the scenarios, you may only depending on your role, you may only hit once a year, right? So let’s say you’re doing, you know, you may not, you may only do early renewals once a year, right? Or maybe you’re doing, you know, an upsell, cross sell or something that, but you work only on big strategic accounts. So you may only have five deals a year, right? I don’t want that was my thing. I just, I don’t want to give people training until they need it, I need them. I want them to get the information when they need it. So that’s what I was saying, I, here’s the here’s my 10 minutes, you’re aware of what’s different, when you’re ready when you’re in a deal. And you’re like, Oh, I need to know that. And then here it is for you. So

The Collaborator
I think that’s so important, too. And I love that that way of thinking because they’re not going to remember all of that even 19 minutes, they’re probably not going to remember all of it until they actually need it. And they go, Oh, crap. What was that again? So I like the fact that you kept it short, just to give them a taste of what was what was changed? What was new events, supported it with a deeper, richer, longer content behind the scenes. Have you taken any different approaches that we’re in terms of mean, you said if people are tired of training, people are tired of life in general, like you said, and I agree with you? Is that impacting in any way shape? Or form? How you’re delivering enablement to the team? Or do you see it impacting in any way how you’re going to in the future?

Deborah Deardorff
Well, I will say this was, was different than how I’d done it in the past. Because Because of all those reasons, like in, in the past, we would have required all two hours of training, we would have, you know, made sure everyone completed a whole compliance thing, you know, blah, blah, blah. And so I, you know, I did get some pushback when I wanted to go about it this way, but I was able to influence people are convince people that this really was the right way. And one thing that I, you know, that I missed, and I’m going to go back and do now, I’m in the process of it, today is reference cards, I missed it. You know, even though the training was like, step by step and make him like, guide themselves through it, because my thought was, they could have it up on this, you know, on one screen, they could have the training and on the screen, they could have like the system up right. Reference cards that I didn’t anticipate that so um, yeah, it’s interesting. But what’s cool about that is, I can then also, we use a tool that’s embedded within our Salesforce where you can deliver the reference card, like on demand,

The Collaborator
walk me or a solution like that. Bob, Dylan,

Deborah Deardorff
okay. Yeah. And walk me was part of my initial plan, I just, I ran out of time. It but that’s fine. Because I can still do it. You know, it’ll still be helpful later on. But yeah, we use walk, we the last time we upgraded the system, and it’s on my house, go live list.

The Collaborator
I love that. I love that because I was talking to this, this wonderful company last week, who worked for T Mobile for business. And she was talking about how big we use and walk me in their Salesforce system to, to really do that kind of at the point of need, here’s what you need, here’s what you need. It just makes a lot of sense. Is there anything else that from your perspective, if you could have done it differently, you would have done it differently, either from a planning perspective, or the organization or the execution of it.

Deborah Deardorff
Um, I’m, I misquoted the amount of time it would take to create things, even though I doubled it from the last time, I sometimes struggle to i, it takes a long time to communicate and create these things. So I think I’m going to double it again next time. But one thing that I did differently this time is I really, you know, enablement at the end of the line of change, sometimes not that we weren’t brought in in the beginning, but like the actual creation of it is that does at the end, right? So if the system change is running long, they start to eat into your time that you have the end of the project, right? So I stayed completely steadfast. And I’m like, if you know, until the system is like my, I need this amount of time and my clock doesn’t start until the system is stable. And so every time you make a change, I’m starting that clock over and and that, you know, I think the difference for me this time was different. I was doing it by myself. And then this time, I had a big team. And I felt this be to really protect my team. So it was different when I was making that decision. And it was my own time and, you know, whatever, weekends, evenings, whatever. But when I had a team that I needed to protect, I felt much stronger to stronger about protecting their time, and making sure the clock didn’t start until it was time, if that makes sense.

The Collaborator
It’s such a hard thing early in my career, I was in software, quality assurance. So very much the same kind of role, especially back in the 90s, where development would take two years to develop a project. And sometimes QA would get, oh, you’re gonna have three months to test it? Well, now you have two and a half months to test. And now you have two months to test it. And it’s very much the same thing. We’re not going to change the end date, but we’re going to keep compressing in the middle. And I think it’s important for enablement, both to protect the core amount of time they need. But I also wonder how we do a better job of being creative and doing earlier and earlier work in the cycle. So we’re not waiting to the end as well. And I’m not magically trying to pretend I have all the answers. I don’t. But I think that’s the challenge we all need to figure out is how can we also try to do some of it earlier on the pieces that are locked, if it’s possible, and so on and so forth?

Deborah Deardorff
Yeah, you know, you bring up a good point that I kept seeing that bucket at the end of my project around communication. Yeah. And I kept thinking, I’ll get to that, because I was working on other things. But if, you know, if I’m honest with myself, you’re right, I probably should have started on that. Sooner than I wouldn’t have been so backed up at the end on the communication, but then sometimes there’s things that you need to know before you can start it. So I don’t know, I’m gonna process that I’m gonna reflect on that.

The Collaborator
It’s, it’s a challenging one for all of us, though. So I mean, we all need to figure we all need to figure it out. What do you know, Deborah, what happened we talked about in terms of deploying projects or new processes, they like, jeez, john, I think this is something really important in my mind, that I want to share.

Deborah Deardorff
Yes, I have to I probably two things that I would share, um, one, I it’s really invigorating, and I think, helpful to to the overall project, if you can step back and look at other functional areas, and what they do well, and then apply those to your work. So I’ll give you a couple examples. One. I used business operations project planning tool. They use smart sheets. I sort of new spreadsheets, but I had to really learn spreadsheets. And I’m so glad that I did. Because it helped me one with communicating up and down the chain. And it was it’s, you know, what it saved me from? Is those emails, oh, my God, I’m getting on a leader call, can you give me an update, you know, it was always up to date. So when ever Yeah, whenever they needed it, or if they want a call, they were empowered I, I kept saying, I want you to be successful in advocating for us when you’re on those leader calls. So I’m going to make sure that this always has what you need in it. And they were so appreciative of that. The other way that they go. The other way that it helped me was the team that I was working on and creating the content. One was in Hong Kong, you know, one was in California, and then one of them was here in Pennsylvania. But she had a five year old son, so when it was a convenient time for everyone to meet, she was either trying to person too bad, or she was a single mom with a kid at home because of COVID trying to get a kid to bed or you know, you know, wake him up, get them on a zoom call something. So what Smartsheet enabled us to do was to, to always be working and communicating without actually having to get on a call. So that was great. The other thing that I use, I use learn something from marketing. And they have some great tactics for communications, right. I tried to use Constant Contact, but I got shut down by it for some things. But so I ended up using populo, which I don’t know if other people have used it. It’s an internal communication tool, but it has some marketing features on it. So you can do a B testing of like subjects. So you know which ones have your emails open, get open, and it will change it on the fly based on who’s opening it. I had this this gut thing that and I thought it was I spent too much time on I was crazy. But I was like it is so important to me that my emails look good on a mobile phone. And I was doing like images and like interesting things and I’m like they can’t look back. On a phone, and popular will automatically, you know, reformat them based on what device you look at them on. And then I got feedback that I was right, like 67% of the people looked at it on their phone. So that was important for me to really think about and to do. And also they can be reporting and heat maps of like, where do they spend their most time reading? Where did they click so that you can inform this campaign but also future campaigns? And last but not least, they allowed me to send some of the important emails as though they came from their leader from their sales leader. But the reply, yeah, the reply to came back to enable that. So it didn’t flood the leader with questions, but it got people to look at it. And you can schedule it on the time zone. So apeejay got it at 8am their time. Me, I got to 8am that. So that was called. So I think it’s learning to learning from other disciplines and applying them and just being so infinitely curious.

The Collaborator
I love all of that. Did anything surprise you on that in terms of the heat maps? Or the titles? Did you find out anything interesting out of it? Or is it more like, Oh, well, Sally likes it when we say it this way. And Bill likes it this way? You know, was it or was it broader? I

Deborah Deardorff
didn’t learn as much as I thought I would. But I’m going to play with a little bit more next time what it did do however I am, I could see the individual level. Like I could see, you know, people were clicking this one link like 10 times. Why are they doing that? Why aren’t you doing that? And so I call, I’m like, Hey, sorry to be a stalker. But I noticed you clicked the link 10 times, like what happened. And it turned out I had made a mistake and the learning management system around availability for the content. So it wasn’t opening. But it was like weeks ahead of the actual go live. So they didn’t need to be taking the training. So didn’t cause a big problem. And it was just a stupid user error. But that was kind of

The Collaborator
pointed out to you as opposed to people not taking the training when they absolutely needed to.

Deborah Deardorff
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, ultimately, I signed it. This was just if they were anxious to wanted to see what was coming. They could take it in advance. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. And so the, you know, the, I guess the only other thing that I would say, you know, that I’m passionate about when it comes to these projects, and just, you know, enablement. Iran, I’ve sort of alluded to it already is, you know, it’s this need to be insatiably curious, right, this desire to continuously learn from other industries under function, other functional areas. And it really requires all of us to ask a lot of questions and just keep taking, keep peeling back that four layers, right, until you get to the core of what, what really is the problem that needs to be solved. And I encourage people to seek discomfort, right? Because as you become uncomfortable, the uncomfortable because becomes comfortable, right? It makes you better. actively seek out ideas that are different than yours. Like, for example, when I did, I was working on my presentation skills, I could have gone to like a business presentation coachable. Like, you know what, I’m going to method acting coach. And what I learned from a method acting coach, oh, my God, the skills and the things that they do to prepare themselves is amazing. Um, I think learn to be funny. It’s a skill. It’s, it’s not something everyone’s born with, you can learn it. But it engages a different part of the brain and a different memory. And I think we just, we, I think enablement, people really have this desire to be of service to others. And I think as long as you’re, you know, comfortable in that, that you will, you’ll be successful. But in your service to others, you also have to have the strength to like, hold the mirror up to them and say, you know, no, this isn’t right. This is this is, this is where you said we’re going. This doesn’t fit with the strategy. And even if it’s not knowing it’s just not now just having that strength, balanced with the humility to say, to recognize that we don’t have all the answers. So I don’t know, courage to ask others for help or work, cross functionally, and just really build an eclectic team, right? with diverse experience diverse thinking to really deliver a better product and a fun environment.

The Collaborator
So much good stuff there. Deborah, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your insights. We really do appreciate it. Thank you. Have a great rest of your day. listening in. I hope you got something out of this. If you have a question for Deborah. Is it okay if they just ping you on LinkedIn? Deborah?

Unknown Speaker
Absolutely. Cool.

Unknown Speaker
I love it.

The Collaborator
Beware though, her sense of humor she may put you want an improv class. Maybe uncomfortable but Forster. By

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