Abbie Dockerill, Product Enablement Training Manager at Emarsys an SAP company,  joined DACH Regional Host, Britta Lorenz to share her thoughts on enablement career growth.

Through an open and insightful conversation, Abbie shared insights on topics such as:

1️⃣ The importance of inclusive language in training, content, verbally and written, with solid examples.

2️⃣ Some great examples of how she is balancing work and life.  No, for Abbie it’s not just a catch phrase.

3️⃣ If you live in your comfort zone your passion, energy, and so forth die.

Give a listen and share the insights from this fantastic conversation.

Audio Transcript

Britta Lorenz
All right. Hello, and welcome everyone to our next episode of collaboration enablement in the region. Hello. And I’m so excited to be here with Abby Cockerell, the product enablement Training Manager at immerses and sap company. Hello, Ellie. Welcome.

Abbie Dockerill
Hi, Britta. Thank you ever so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here and start talking about enablement and collaboration.

Britta Lorenz
Great. Thank you. Me, before we jump into our topic, may I ask you to introduce yourself a little more? Who You Are your background where coming from from an educational point of view?

Abbie Dockerill
Yeah, sure. So my name is Abby. I’m a British citizen. But I’m actually living in Berlin, Germany. And I’ve been here for about six years. I started initially in some larger companies focusing around customer care, and then transitioned into the SAS world. So Software as a Service, working on support and then moving into enablement. And I’ve been working in enablement now for about three or four years. And most recently now at mosses at sa p company. And before all of that, as you mentioned, education, I come from a bit of a psychology and fitness background. So maybe that will come up a little bit today.

Britta Lorenz
Great, super, again, a super diverse background. And I think we have heard that so many times already when we listen to stories of where our neighbors are coming from. So I mean, you said three or four years ago, we turned into enablement. Do you mind sharing with us? What was this one event or that aha effect? When you were I want to go into enablement?

Abbie Dockerill
Yes. So I can’t honestly say there was this one moment, it was always something I wanted to do. I’ve always wanted to help people enjoy training. So initially, I was going to be a sports trainer. And then I thought, okay, I’ll be a psychologist, I’ll help people. And then life happened. And I somehow ended up in software, and I’m super happy about it. But during my different roles within customer care, I was always hoping to move forward into enablement. But unfortunately, the companies I will I was with, they weren’t particularly supportive of having someone have a mono lingual background. So I only speak English, I do it quite well. But unfortunately, not any other. So even though I finished Germany six years, I’m in Berlin. So the first language is still English. And no one wanted to take a chance on me. And they thought, Okay, well, because you only speak one language. It’s not something we’re interested in. And it took until I was at my previous company, where they said, Actually, no, this person seems to really have a passion for it. You know, what, we just had a learning management system implemented, we need to help people get on boarded, because we’re having a massive hiring influx. Let’s see how it goes. And then I was given the opportunity. And since then, I’ve not looked back.

Britta Lorenz
Well, that’s a wonderful story. So how did that feel giving this chance being presented this chance to basically implement something new.

Abbie Dockerill
Um, it was an amazing journey. And it felt amazing, I felt that the work I’ve done me as a person I was seen, I was being acknowledged, and I was actually being given some responsibility, which is often the case that they don’t give to younger women in the technology sphere. And therefore, it put a little bit of pressure on me as well, like, I want to do this, that every single woman in tech, I want to do it for me, of course, I want to do a good job. But I don’t want this to be the example that okay, we’ve given someone a chance. And they, they didn’t succeed, and therefore we won’t do it again. So I was happy that I felt pressure, and therefore it drove me forward to do better.

Britta Lorenz
Great, I think it’s awesome that it took on this chance, and he didn’t shy away from stepping up and taking this advantage. So when you’re working now, today, in your company in this role, are you managing cross regional and multiple cultures? Or is it purely in Germany.

Abbie Dockerill
So for me, I work with a completely global base. And that was the case at my previous company as well that a lot of our people are in Germany, which is why there’s me working in that particular region. That’s how I was hired. But my audience, the stakeholders in which I need to ensure are being enabled are across the globe, and even those that aren’t necessarily outside of my region. They are international. So this is something that I have to face a lot is making sure all of the content I offer. The way I speak is very international and culture friendly. So I always try to make sure that the sayings that I use are either neutral And therefore aren’t British centric. Because of course, the colloquialisms. And the ways of expressing myself in the UK might be very different to what is necessarily, I’m just different other places. So I try to make sure it’s very neutral, I try to make sure I use very gender neutral terms. And my, the way I speak is a lot slower. I often get confused with being Australian, I don’t know whether or not that’s coming across now. But apparently, my natural accent doesn’t come across as much because I’m focusing on keeping it very international friendly. And in terms of the content I create, as well, I always want to make sure I’m highlighting diverse people to ensure that the content that I’m putting out isn’t alienating part of my audience. I know a lot of my stakeholders are mostly men. However, there are women out there as well that also want to be seen. And I found it myself when I’m in training courses, and the only images are men. When people use the gender pronoun, he alienates me as part of the audience. And you see this in recruiting as well. So I always try to make sure, maybe sometimes I fail, sometimes I still say guys, instead of people, friends, humans, whatever I can use to keep it gender neutral. And it’s a learning curve. And it’s a journey. But I’m always trying to make sure that what I’m doing is working across the different regions and making sure that everybody feels comfortable. coming to me for help, which is a big part of enablement is that barrier that being able to ask someone for help, which I hope I am able to alleviate.

Britta Lorenz
Right. So you say you really try to keep your content natural. So it fits. One thing fits all, if we can say that, how do you actually build in feedback loops to get this feedback that you meet this? I mean, I think it’s a huge goal to have it neutral for the whole globe. How do you put in feedback loops in there? And how did how does this cadence look like?

Abbie Dockerill
So in terms of all of the content I put out, I want to get feedback every time. And I don’t just give a blanket Oh, on a scale of zero to 10? How did you feel because most people will just be like 10, eight, or five? Those are pretty much the standard scores that people give. I always want to drill it down. Okay, what did I do? Well, what did I not do as well for you? And what was missing? What can we do next time? Because I think sometimes we get very focused on Okay, was this session good? Can I say to my boss, I did a good job. And can this look good to upper management that this course was effective. But if you’re not looking at the next step, you’re really doing the stakeholders that you’re working with a disservice. So this is something I always try to do with every single training that I offer is good or bad next. And then of course, you have a blanket score. And I always give people the option to leave that name as well. Some people don’t want to, and that is a barrier for them giving feedback. So I give the option, you can keep it anonymous. If you want friend, I’m not going to be mad at any feedback you have. But if you want to share it, if you want to allow me the opportunity to ask you questions, that’s there as well. I’m trying to keep it as open to people as possible. I also know that depending on your region, you might be nicer or harsher with feedback, especially if your name is attached. At least if I’m speaking from a cultural standpoint, I know me as a British person, if someone gives me an online form, and it’s anonymous, I might be a little bit more honest, and on the same path harsh and not as friendly, versus if my name is attached, or if I’m giving it face to face, because there is the stereotype of British people being nice, polite, whereas other coaches don’t necessarily worry about that. So often, we have a moment sometimes when we think about our counterparts, that sometimes are very quick to focus on the negatives, but also struggle to focus on the positive. So definitely in the feedback loop, we want to make sure we’re cranking out both components of all people.

Britta Lorenz
I love that idea actually really emphasizing the variance is also in the culture of giving feedback based on where are your stakeholders coming from sharing their insights? So when we also think about the Global Management, and distribution of your tasks, how do you deal with time zones? I mean, I imagine that’s a really struggle, keeping all those things balanced.

Abbie Dockerill
Um, I like to not think it’s a struggle personally, because I do believe in the work life balance, but the way I’m able to close my computer at the end of the day and not open it the second day wake up is because what we implemented at the Masters was a global community. So we created a safe space for people to ask questions. And typically we in product enablement, the team that I am from will answer those questions. But of course, if we’re not available There’s an entire community there that can support each other. And not only do they support that one person, they share that knowledge. There’s no silo, there’s nothing worse than when someone messages you directly. And you give them the answer. And then that happens to you again, and again. And again, that’s not a good use of anybody’s time. By putting it on a global and globally accessible channel, someone can get that information, they can learn from it, they can search for further information, they know who’s an expert on that topic. And it’s just a lot better. So by building a community where people can share can ask questions and can contribute. I feel like that’s the best way to handle the different time zones. Of course, I tried to make sure I’m available for at least an hour for an hour, Asian Pacific friends, but also for our American friends, which can be difficult, because especially for Australia, when I wake up, and usually start working at eight, it’s already getting quite late in Australia, not so bad in Singapore. But this is something that we have to be mindful of. And sometimes that does mean starting a little bit earlier. But because work life balance is very important for me. And what I stress to the people I speak to as well for them to take care of, is that okay? There may be a day where I have to start early. But that’s going to be a day where I finished a little bit earlier, I have a longer lunch break, where I can work on personal projects, such as this being part of different collaborations outside of my general scope of work.

Britta Lorenz
Great. I really like this balance between work life. And you also share that it takes this freedom of taking out some time of a regular day, in our I mean in our time zone, and share it with your personal private things, and then move back to work. super great. Thanks for sharing this great tip. So our topic of today has comfort zone in its title. And we just heard that before from john, when we got ready for the talk. Great things never come from the comfort zone, we have or should step outside. What does it really mean for you every How do you interpret it that?

Abbie Dockerill
Yes. So when we were talking about this, before, we decided on our topic, I said to the iPhone, that if you’re stuck in your comfort zone, a lot of things in terms of your mentality die, your creativity dies, and your desire to work dies, your desire to improve dies, it’s just the depth of everything inside of you that’s positive, in terms of moving forward because you stop feeling like you matter. because everything’s just autopilot, you’re comfortable. Everything’s easy. You know, some people like that sense of safety, but I don’t think it lasts very long. And this is why you find successful people in organizations that you think would never leave and looking for other alternatives looking for a different possibility. Because they’re so comfortable, they expect to be challenged, and then not being. And sometimes that doesn’t come from the organization, sometimes that comes from within. And it’s not very comfortable to look at yourself and go, Hmm, you know what, actually, I’m pretty weak in this. This is something I’m not good at. And I want to improve. People don’t like to do this, they like to focus on what they’re good at, have people put challenges in their way that they know that they can achieve, and that they grow a little bit more. But eventually, once you become good enough and comfortable enough that stops happening unless you drive that forward. And so for me, the comfort zone, I see a lot in my colleagues, the ones that perhaps don’t seem as happy is that they know because they’re struggling with their work. So they’re struggling with themselves that they are comfortable and that they don’t know what to do. And it’s kind of like the addict mindset where if I change location, if I change where I am, then everything will get better. But eventually the same cycle comes again, where it’s like, Okay, well, I’m not improving anymore, I’m not getting better. I’m not doing anything normal, sorry, not doing anything new. And this becomes normal for them. And they then struggle and then they need to go out again and they just fall back into this cycle. So for me, yeah, that’s how I would perhaps describe my comfort zone. Perhaps other people feel differently for them, of His love are comfortable in challenge, but I don’t think that’s the majority.

Britta Lorenz
But when you take how you feel about the comfort zone, and we bring it into the terms of enablement, how you translate that directly from your personal comfort zone into your work as enabler.

Abbie Dockerill
Okay, so, um, for me, and again, this can be very different for each and every person. And in my personal life, I like to be comfortable I like to be in my comfort zone. Whereas in walk if I expect to progress if I expect to get better if I expect my team to get better To for the people I enabled to get better, I have to push myself, I have to be an example that says, Okay, I want you to learn things, I want you to give four hours of your week or day or whatever, to enablement. And if I can’t do that, myself, it’s not fair for me to ask that as anybody else. So, for me, I have to put that out there of like, Hey, I’m actually learning so you can learn. Maybe the thing that I’m teaching you that takes two hours, it took me two weeks to learn. And I need to put that out there. And by sharing with people that you won’t expect them to do anything that you won’t do yourself, I think it’s a great way to position it. Something I learned from my dad actually, he says to me, he has his own little business. And he says, Abby, I will never ask my employees to do anything, I’m not happy to do myself. And that’s always stuck with me. So I’m an enabler will never ask anyone to do anything, I won’t be happy to do either.

Britta Lorenz
So does it also have something to do for you by leading by example, or walk the talk?

Abbie Dockerill
Exactly, but also to be a trailblazer as well, like, so what I’m talking about earlier around, making sure content is neutral. And that I want to use gender inclusive terms that I want to make sure my stock images are diverse. This is something that people are starting to talk about, but not really implement. And I think you do have to sometimes lead the way to get people to understand that, okay, there is a different way of doing things. And maybe it’s better, maybe it helps more people feel included, maybe it’s actually a new thing to try it, it might not work for everybody. But for me, I think, in enablement, we have a very special role where we can actually influence behavior down the line. So yes, I want to walk the talk. But I also want to find a new way and a better way to do things so that we can always keep iterating.

Britta Lorenz
So that also ignites some kind of change, change of mindset, change in behavior. And in the end, enables the person to unlock hidden potential, maybe also, because sometimes you’re not even aware that you can do things if you’re just stuck in your little own find zone. But once you actually dare to step outside, you’re gonna see what else is possible, what you can do.

Abbie Dockerill
Wonderful, brilliant way of putting it much more eloquent than me.

Britta Lorenz
Thank you. Okay.

Unknown Speaker
So

Britta Lorenz
we spoke about comfort zones, stepping outside, creating new potentials. When we look at 2021 and our goals, what can we expect to see from you? Did you set any goals outside of the comfort zone?

Abbie Dockerill
I think pretty much all of my goals are outside of my comfort zone. And to be fair, I’m outside of my comfort zone right now. For those who don’t know me, I actually consider myself an introvert. And I’m quite shy. And I have a lot of stage fright. So vegan enablement, that’s hard for me. So this year, and I want to keep pushing that I want to keep pushing my comfort zone, I want to potentially start my own podcast or a way of sharing information via articles or online videos. Alongside that, I also want to keep learning new skills. I don’t deem myself a particularly technical human. And so I want to ensure that I’m building upon that we have some really exciting stuff happening at the masters at the moment around mobile apps. mobile apps are very technical. And I have to talk about JSON payloads and SDKs. And I’m just like, yes, this sounds so interesting. I know exactly what this means. And I want to be able to, if I have to train people on it, I want to at least understand it to a decent enough level, because again, I can’t expect someone to train something, or teach something or sell something, if I haven’t done the effort myself. So I think there’s going to be a lot of technical studying for me, and a lot of knowledge sharing. But in general, I want to keep getting better. I’m trying to stay away from this idea of perfect or getting to a finite goal. I want to keep getting closer and closer to the person I want to be which is always going to develop and it’s always going to run away and that’s okay. So, yeah, that’s kind of what people can expect from me in the future. Did you

Britta Lorenz
use any kind of techniques or methodologies for yourself to define those goals and come up with it or maybe even a roadmap to it?

Abbie Dockerill
So I was quite fortunate to be part of a group and it’s called the rise group. And it’s all about female leadership qualities. I’ve only just started but the very first session was about being a visionary, and it’s hosted by a friend of mine, Crystal delaporte And it was all about setting the goals being the person you want to be, and making sure that you have a definite goal. So and holding yourself accountable to it. So, for example, setting a date, okay, Today is July 1, and I have completed my mobile app development course. And I feel proud, but tired because it’s super technical, and my brain is melting. So making it very specific to your feelings to a date and to a specific task was the way that I was shown to create goals. And I’m actually very motivated by this. And for others, it might be a can band board with very technical swimlanes and techie, fun stuff. And you can make some really cool ones and tools like notion. But for me, just a simple sentence seems to be driving me forward in the goals that I’m setting.

Britta Lorenz
And it also keeps you accountable to actually work on it. Do you have it somewhere on the wall? Where you see it all the time? Or is it like a screenshot on your phone? How do you make it visible for yourself?

Abbie Dockerill
Yes, so it’s actually on my front door. So every time I leave my house, I see. And it’s like, Okay, so how many more days? Do I have to achieve this? Okay, this is for q2, this is q free, I’ve got a bit more time. Whereas this is something I said I would do semi quickly. So therefore, maybe instead of watching Netflix, I should actually start working on that.

Britta Lorenz
Maybe I have to remember that too. Sometimes. You need the Netflix pinching to

Abbie Dockerill
exactly, but I do love a good sticky post it so sticky posts are all over the place on my apartment.

Britta Lorenz
Oh, cool. I would love to see your sticky notes wall should be really colorful, and heavy. We heard work life balance before. Something that goes along a lot of times is mental well being, especially right now in these tough times where we are in. So how do you recharge for yourself and make sure you’re ready for yourself, for your team? And for all your friends and everybody in your life?

Abbie Dockerill
Yes, so Exactly. mental well being is a big topic. For me. work life balance is a massive topic as well, as we already talked about, sort of the importance of recharging. I said that I’m an introvert I like being in my quiet in my dark room where I can just be by myself with my books. And I also have a small rescue puppy. So we go outside every day. And at the moment, it’s snowing here in Berlin. So we go out in the snow and minus 10 degrees and and just get a break from the screen a break from music a bike break from the sound and and that’s really uplifting that some cows nearby us and like fluffy Highland cows and just being in nature is a great way for me to recharge aside from that. Working on these personal projects that is all about my own personal development gives me a great sense of achievement a great sense of calm, and that’s pretty much how I spend my my time when it’s not Netflix.

Britta Lorenz
They also have something like a daily routine or a ritual. What do you say, Okay, I put in coffee breaks into my diary in order to get up or I mean, your puppy definitely is gonna have his or her routine when they want to get out. I know that my son from our dog, but it’s just do you have any tips and tricks again, you can share with our audience to maybe make it easy to move into this breaks so you can recharge.

Abbie Dockerill
Yeah, so, um, at least how I do it is I make sure every Friday of mine is clear. That’s like one set rule I have for myself Fridays for, for work and for silence in terms of like a daily routine. And even though I’m at home, I don’t see anyone apart from the Amazon delivery driver. I do my makeup every day. And not because I feel like I need it. I’m very much about being my boss and body positivity. But it’s actually a calming routine for me because I actually have to sit down. I can’t look at the screen and I have to be detail oriented, which is not always easy. When you’re stressed and you’ve got other things on your mind. So it’s something I like to do. And I’ve had a few men messaged me after some of my trainings were like how do you be so positive like first thing in the morning? eyeliner, that’s that’s my most like valuable advice, get eyeliner and the guy’s like, okay, actually, this actually works for me and I’m happy. So find something that calms you down and that makes you focus and you can’t have distractions. That’s my biggest way of recharging and as a routine if I am stressed I will Go into my room, do my makeup, do something I’m detail oriented, I also walk on jewelry design. So sometimes if I’ve already got a full drag on, I will walk on jewelry design instead. So just something that calms you down. Everyone has that little task that maybe takes five minutes, but it just gives them a sense of calm sense of achievement, a sense of being in control. Right.

Britta Lorenz
I just love the makeup. I mean, sitting down, relaxing, wonderful. Also, when we think about, and I heard that actually, in a lot of community talks lately, some fatigue, having one meeting after another, not getting the team to understand that we need breaks, are you facing issues like that as well with your team?

Abbie Dockerill
With my team, luckily not. We’re all very respectful of the fact that people need time, you know, people will need bio breaks, and two of the three people in the team have pets, you know, pets need to go outside, you can’t be on back to back meetings. So being very respectful of that is important. But then we also want to maintain the social aspect. So there have been times where we’ve just been on zoom together, but not necessarily sharing anything or talking. Just having that person there to stimulate the office where you can just go Oh, by the way, can I ask you this quick question. So being available, but not necessarily being actively present was something that we could do. In those moments, when we were working on collaborative tasks, or especially around brainstorming, it doesn’t need to be talking for two hours, it can just be being close to one another. And speaking for those odd minutes when it’s actually important. And it’s about having the quality over the quantity sometimes. And otherwise, I think we just try and have fun. And I’m very fortunate to be in a team that’s very diverse for the fact it’s only three people. So we get to share stories and just have fun with each other, it’s not always going to be very work heavy. And we do also understand that we are missing these aspects from being close to one another in an office, for example. So being able to talk friendly and shad life moments is also super important for us. And not just having it be the standard conversations where everyone is working exactly the same. So we get to talk about Brexit with me, for example, which you don’t necessarily do. If you’re in a full German team. Or if you’re based in the UK, these aren’t topics that come up. And I get to ask about random German sayings, which is something I greatly enjoy.

Britta Lorenz
So I take it you are the whole team is based in Berlin. Right now you are just working virtually in the home office or together? Do you actually also get to see each other once in a while? or How are you handling these things at the moment.

Abbie Dockerill
So for us, we haven’t been to the office now for about four or five months. But there was a point where we were going maybe once or twice a week just to see each other. But beforehand as well, even before the pandemic, and I always commend my boss for this. And he has a small girl, that he shares custody with his ex partner. And he said that he would always work from home at least two days a week. And that gave us great flexibility. So we already had this mindset of there will be remote work. And there will be trust, therefore, and so we could go to the office, we could see each other but we have to be comfortable with the fact of not having proximity to give us safety. And we can just communicate online, or just a line beforehand as well. So many times it gets to the point where you have to always be pestering in the moment because you haven’t done a proper project plan. So that’s something we’ve got better at with time is being able to say this is the project, this is how it’s going to be done. This is when we’re going to align on it. And therefore it opened up our days a lot more, especially when you can’t see someone you don’t know if they’re out with the dog. They don’t you don’t know what they’re doing. And it definitely made it a lot easier for us to already be in that mindset pre COVID.

Britta Lorenz
And I think you just mentioned one so important thing for all of us working in a team working remotely. And it’s trust. I think, if trust is given and earned. It’s such a great engine for all of us to make work life much, much better and the collaboration between us and working in this crazy times as we have them.

Abbie Dockerill
Exactly. I feel very empathetic for those that don’t have a trusting team where they can’t Say to their boss, I need to go to the supermarket because this is the only window for my family. Or they need to be able to go to a doctor’s appointment. No, sorry, your hours of nine to five, there’s no flexibility. I feel very, very sorry for the people that have that. I’m very lucky that I don’t. But I do hope that COVID and home office has taught a lot of managers to get out of their comfort zone of I need to see someone they need to be clocked in at this moment, in order for me to know they’re working, coming from, like different experiences, what you see that someone’s burning out, just because you’re logged in at a computer sitting in an office does not mean you’re being productive. And putting that level of micromanagement on people does not make them good workers and is more likely to send them to another company. So I really do hope trust is something that people have learned that we will

Britta Lorenz
definitely, definitely. So me to be cautious of our time. What have I failed to ask you?

Abbie Dockerill
So many questions that you could have possibly asked. For me, um, I guess one thing I always want to get across is that you don’t have to be perfect. And people shouldn’t strive to that. Getting out of your comfort zone is the perfect way to show that to yourself. So being able to say, this is something I’m not good at. And I want to get better not because I want to be perfect, but because I actually just want to improve is a great thing. And in order to do that you have to be self reflective and focus on where you might have failed. I think a lot of people don’t want to talk about their failures. I have failed a lot. I have made so many mistakes. And the biggest lessons I’ve made have come from those. And so I wish it was more normalized. To talk about what you do wrong. I do so much wrong. Like I I tell people all guys, you don’t need to listen to me. And I’m sure you know better because I talk to people that are very knowledgeable and I love never being the smartest person in the room I don’t want to be but by telling people don’t listen to me. I’m instantly discrediting myself. And I know this, and it’s definitely something I have to work on. As soon as I said it, I think 100 people turned off, they’re like, oh, then why are we here? We don’t need to listen to this human. And I something I have to work on. And because I tried to be humble, I tried to say to people, hey, you’re smarter than me. It’s okay. I want you to challenge me. And that is the way I should put it. Not, don’t listen to me because I could be wrong.

Unknown Speaker
Wonderful.

Abbie Dockerill
Exactly. So yeah, I have 100 stories like that of all of the times I’ve failed. So if anyone wants to ask about those, they are more than welcome to do so.

Britta Lorenz
Or we just do another session on stories, how to get self reflected and out of the comfort zone as the key to success. That will be a fun session. I think every

Abbie Dockerill
I think they do. And I’d love to hear other people’s stories. So I don’t feel as bad.

Britta Lorenz
Definitely, definitely. I mean, we can learn so much from each other. And especially if we think about we always see the glory and shine of successful people. But they don’t. There’s hardly anyone speaking about our failure of the pain they went through in order to get where they are. There is not one single superstar on top of the world who never had any failure or had missteps. So we I think that’s one really key thing we have to be aware of.

Abbie Dockerill
Definitely, Abby,

Britta Lorenz
how can our listeners and audience get in touch with you if they want to share some stories with you or pick up something we just spoke about?

Abbie Dockerill
So LinkedIn would be the best way to do that. So I’m searchable by my name Abby dockrell. She has so with my gender pronouns as well. I’m very happy for people to connect on other networks as well, but especially for work related topics. LinkedIn would be my preference.

Britta Lorenz
Super. Abby, thank you so much for coming onto the show today and sharing your stories with us. I think it was wonderful, so many insights. And yeah, as I said, I would be happy to have another session with you to speak about success and failure stories and lessons learned out of it and how to move out of the conference on the progress. Thank you.

Abbie Dockerill
Thank you so much, Britta. It’s a lovely lovely being here.

Unknown Speaker
Thank you.

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